Stompshifter
Legacy of the Void Officer
Disgusting. . .
Posts: 1,804
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Post by Stompshifter on Nov 13, 2005 14:00:12 GMT -5
I know that most of you will not agree with me on this, but I need to say it, also you all pretty much know my standing on the subject.
I think that most Priests are cocky knowitall assholes, there are a few that aren't for example, Namtar, Gougouyou, Notgunnadie, and a few others. I am just confused on why there are so few Priests in game, and most of the ones you run into are assholes.
For example, another Druid and I were told that we have to give our Innervate to the Priests, even tho we were topping the healing charts, and have combat rezz, so I was forced to tell this Priest to cram it. Also I don't understand why they are so bossy, all the healers last night in MC were being yelled at by a Priest, telling us that "we needed to keep the tanks up", telling healers that the we need to keep the tanks up, is like telling a Rouge that he/she needs to hit harder, or telling a protect warrior that is doing a great Job that he/she needs to keep more Aggro.
Also, I know that we need them, but we also need Druid and Shaman, and you dont see them acting like turds, just because your a wanted class, doesint give you a free ride to be a jerk.
I know that I am bitching, but we are all big boy/girls, this is MC, we know our role, so Priests. . .STFU!
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Post by namtar on Nov 13, 2005 14:54:12 GMT -5
There seems to be a general sense that priests are the best healers, and on the official WoW webpage Blizz even says something to that effect. I don't know if the game is actually rigged to theoretically make priests better than anyone else at healing, but in practice it seems that player skill and talent/equipment emphasis counts far more than which healing class you play.
It is probably funner to solo most other healing classes than a non-shadow priest, so that might be why they're relatively scarce.
So it's basically a problem of people thinking priests are more important than they really are, and the resulting ego problems that result in many priests. I think...
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Post by Malthorn on Nov 13, 2005 17:23:13 GMT -5
Yea from playing with stomp alot its taught me that druids can heal jsut as good if not better then priests.
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Post by Vithigar on Nov 13, 2005 20:09:01 GMT -5
I had no idea that Rebirth ignored rez timers...
I learned that earlier today reading old patch notes at work because I was bored.
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Post by The Zrogfather on Nov 14, 2005 17:52:02 GMT -5
Wow... I'm glad I checked this thread.
First Part: Arrogance or Nerves?
I've been seeing that a lot of people react differently when things aren't going well in a large raid - some get impatient, some joke around in chat, some go afk frequently, some hyper-analyze strategy, and others try to reassure themselves that everyone is doing what they are supposed to be doing by re-issuing (obvious) instructions.
In the Luci fights, it's pretty much all over when the MT goes down, so being a healer can be a very stressful (and also very very important) job. It's virtually impossible to tell in combat that everyone else is doing exactly what they should be doing, which is why instructions get repeated until you feel like saying (and apparently do say) "STFU, I know my job!"
I said in Healer chat that if you know and are doing your job, those repeated instructions and comments are NOT directed at you. What I WOULD like you guys to start talking about is EXACTLY what you do on the successful fights, because I sure don't know what MC boss fights look like from your perspective.
Second part: INNERVATE
Druids are NOT worse healers than priests... although priests have some more mana-efficient, non-HOT heals than druids do (or so I'm told), AND priests typically, because of gear, have higher spirit, meaning that Innervate will result in more mana when cast on a priest, meaning more bang for the buck. This may NOT be true for our raid members! If it really bugs you, let's compare gear, do some mana-efficiency math, and see who the Innervate should be cast on.
EDIT: In fact, upon re-read, I just realized how stupid we've been about this subject. I certainly wouldn't put a warrior as Main Tank if I didn't know their gear, and we should really be Innervating only our most appropriately-geared Healers.
I would like to commend Stomp, Namtar, and anyone else I missed on the LotV healing roster for their work (and staying power) in MC last week.
Third Part: WHO PLAYS PRIESTS?
I don't know how much I agree with priests being arrogant, since I've partied with so many players that I don't think class typifies attitude. I DO suspect that a lot of people take healers because they like being relied upon and being the backbone of the group when things go sideways. However, *I* play a priest, and it was my first character, so I can't comment much on that.
I WILL say that it's hard to be in a leadership position, and if I were to tell you "Stomp, you are in charge of making sure the healers do whatever they need to do to keep the MT up", what would YOU do and say? What would you say when wipe after wipe the MT kept dying? Would you just say "oh well, it must be luck?"
Zrog
P.S. - I don't mind people venting, but I really need people to get along in the HGA, otherwise it all falls apart. I'm glad you posted your frustrations, and I'm also glad you did it on the LotV board instead of on the HGA one.
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Cherrycoke
Legacy of the Void Officer
I'm your MT, forgetting his sheild
Posts: 497
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Post by Cherrycoke on Nov 14, 2005 17:53:15 GMT -5
yeah ur right on this one....since ur fully restoration(i cant spell) u can out heal a priest...it just BS...and they r jelous of some kick ass spells u have ****cough**** Silicon****cough****
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Stompshifter
Legacy of the Void Officer
Disgusting. . .
Posts: 1,804
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Post by Stompshifter on Nov 14, 2005 19:24:50 GMT -5
Well I get what your saying, and I completely understand where you are coming from, and if you did put me in charge of the healers (not saying that I should be) I would definitely no say "it must just be luck". I and every other healer know that if the Tank goes down the party goes down, and I guarantee that if the MT goes down its not due to lack of healing. In Luci fights, the only time the MT goes down is because the healers are dead, we aren't just standing in the back watching the MT's health go down.
The MT is only as good as the healer standing behind him, I know that Innervate need's to be used as effectively as possible, which is why I don't think that a Priest should get it, and I especially don't need to have Priests DEMAND that I give MY top tree spell to them. If the priests think that they are better healers then they need to reflect that BY HEALING BETTER!
Anyways if you have a problem with anything that I am saying then tell me and or don't let me come on the raids anymore.
BTW, in my casting gear I have 273 Spirit and 309 Int. . . In my Healing gear I have 216 Spirit and 199 Int but my + healing is 275.
Also, to my knowledge Druids and Mages are the only ones who can get rid of that nasty Curse that Luci casts, so I will say this, I think that in my humble opinion, Druids need to have all the mana they can get (in the Luci fight), this my or may not be true in other MC boss fights.
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Post by Aphramzo on Nov 14, 2005 19:53:08 GMT -5
Others take the time to get up and grab another bee.... water. Grab more water <_< Cause some of us are just lowly DPS. As long as we are all shoting at the same thing, we are golden
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Post by namtar on Nov 14, 2005 19:54:51 GMT -5
I'll be honest: I don't know what I'm doing in MC, just trying to learn as fast as possible. We haven't yet begun to fully utilize the talent we have available already in all our classes, and we need to do lots of experimentation. We should avoid sticking doggedly to any one person's strategies, no matter how experienced they are. We should try things that sound reasonable, and things that sound crazy.
I think we should spend some time before the runs coming up with several sets of strategies and things to try so that when we wipe, we can rapidly switch tactics and try something new. This would give us the most experimentation time per run, and keep players from getting bored and frustrated between attempts. I know it's hard to do when we don't really know what mix of people we'll have until we're in there, but any decrease in down time would help us get better faster.
With respects to who heals better, I think the meters are screwing us up. It's a competition to see who can do the most healing, which means healing as rapidly as possible, which means using heal spells that aren't as mana efficient. Otherwise people look at the meters and figure you suck at healing.
Damage meters are probably just as big of a problem. I'm not a damage dealer, but I think in many situations what you hit and when is as important as how much you hit for.
Finally, it might minimize friction if directions came from the raid leader only. People can offer advice, but only the raid leader should be telling people what to do. If assistants are needed, they should be clearly pointed out by the raid leader before beginning, and should be nice about asking people to do stuff, not barking orders. I'm sure we're all happy to follow directions, but if they're not given in a friendly manner it makes MC feel just like a typical job.
And WoW shouldn't be about jobs, it should be about making you lose your job 'cause you can't stop playing the damn thing.
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Post by Malthorn on Nov 14, 2005 21:55:38 GMT -5
I dont have a huge ass 5 paragraph post to make but i got some ideas. With the having lots of strats for each area i have one: for the core hounds when i first did MC, we had the tanks run in there...hold agro...and do the same thing almost except have anyone with AOE do that from the start.....the AOE for the entire fight is rly the only change. It worked every single time only reason im suggesting it. Also, i agree with Nam...unless Zrog says for some else to explain rules or something..he should be giving the rules. Along with when info is repeated....and you know it allrdy....feel good cus you smarter then the people who dont . Dont take anything personaly cus if some1 wanted to tell something to one single person...we have /w for a reason. Also....there is a place on the HGA site where a few of the guild sites were posted for people to look at if they were interested....anyone can look at this.
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Stompshifter
Legacy of the Void Officer
Disgusting. . .
Posts: 1,804
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Post by Stompshifter on Nov 15, 2005 0:10:03 GMT -5
Ahh, good ol level headed Namtar, you make so much sence to me, that sounds good, especially the part about directions coming from the raid leader only, good call man.
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Post by Malthorn on Nov 15, 2005 12:27:03 GMT -5
Many guild grps ban dmg/healing meters for this reason...to get rid of problems like these. But i think we will get over them so not atm do ic any reason to suggest it.
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Post by The Zrogfather on Nov 16, 2005 9:56:08 GMT -5
Ok, it looks like I have some stuff to answer for here.
First, I have no problem with you giving feedback on how you feel about others, how you feel the raid should be run, or whatever.
Unfortunately, I have to delegate. There's no way I can do this on my own. I have had several conversations with Silicon about how he comes across to others, and he's surprisingly receptive to feedback. Please take things like this up with him, give him your ideas, and I think things will be much better. Don't save your frustrations against him until you explode, as many people seem to have done in the past. His effect on people is actually an unpleasant surprise to him. That said, he WON'T be here for the next 2-3 weeks, so I DO need someone to step up. It was going to be Budoh, but she doesn't really like taking the forefront, so I might nominate you, Stomp.
I will be more clear about who I want to lead each section. We are talking about it on the HGA board right now, although only the guild reps can see it at the moment.
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Post by Mcguirk on Nov 16, 2005 10:10:21 GMT -5
I was thinking the same thing Zrog, about the delegation, but I figured I"d leave it for you to answer to. Zrog already has a lot on his plate, he can't handle every detail of the raid on his own. Might I suggest, smug as this may sound, allowing yourself to be quietly amused by the people that annoy you and sit around spouting orders repeatedly? As Zrog said, they aren't aimed at you, and if it makes that person feel like a big man, that's fine, I'll just mute my mic and chuckle. Of course, all of this is very easy for me to say, being a rogue. As Taurentino pointed out, we are useless Seriously, while I do not agree with that, we are the least important class there in MC, and in a lot of raids. Plenty of hunters and locks do a great deal of dmg on these runs, and the locks can banish, consume magic with fellhunters, etc. while the hunters have their marks and can stand back and shoot luci, easily getting out of the range of her curses wihle I run around like a chicken with his head cut off trying to get out of range and zip back in to do some damage befure the next round of curses. To be honest, MC runs have actually made me wonder if maybe I shouldn't start an alt, like a mage or something, where I can still do dmg, but I can also remove magic and such, provide water, buffs, etc. I do really enjoyg being a rogue, but lets be fair, what do I do in MC that others can't do while providing more services?
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Post by The Zrogfather on Nov 16, 2005 13:18:40 GMT -5
McG... I responded to your "rogue concerns" in the rogue thread. I think that you'll find on other bosses aside from Luci that it will be different, DPS-wise.
Zrog
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